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Film Productions / Re: On Chesil Beach
« Last post by MarkRoick on July 24, 2017, 07:58:33 PM »
Wow. Thank you for that incredibly astute analysis of the screenplay MMSouth. I actually forgot about the dialogue at the beginning where they want their daughter to be named Chloe as well, which makes that part at the end even more conclusive.

As for the prosthetic make-up artists... that's for the elderly Edward maybe?

I doubt that there will be a huge number of rewrites, but I would expect at least another two or three drafts to come. Let's hope that the tension is ratcheted up even more in the film.

I was having a look on IMDB yesterday and noticed there's a tagline now:

Quote
This is how the entire course of a life can be changed: by doing nothing
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Film Productions / Re: Saoirse news thread....
« Last post by Bella on July 24, 2017, 03:20:11 AM »
So, TIFF will start announcing their film lineup on Tuesday I think? Fingers crossed at least one of Saoirse's makes it  ::)
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Film Productions / Re: On Chesil Beach
« Last post by Steve 7216 on July 23, 2017, 11:16:02 PM »
Yes, they are quite different and understandably so.  I'm very much looking forward to this partly because the role looks to be perhaps her most challenging to date.  I just have a hunch OCB may find a distributor for the N. American market before we get any word concerning festival bookings.

I watched Dunkirk this weekend twice in two different formats, and the film is flat out intense and immense regardless of the type of screen.  There are two actors in the film who will be Saoirse's leading men: Billy Howle (OCH) had a very brief role as a petty officer, and Jack Lowden (MQOS) was one of the two British pilots who had decent roles.  Lowden has already accomplished much as an actor (mostly in theater work), and he struck me as a legit leading man with movie star qualities.
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Film Productions / Re: On Chesil Beach
« Last post by MMSouth on July 23, 2017, 08:07:44 AM »
Steve, I guess it’s hard to compare the book and the script because they're intended for such difference purposes.  But I was really impressed by the structure and flow of the script, it just seemed to have such a natural progression and built the tension so well.  Some of the new material which was not in the book really added to the story, eg Florence and the vicar, Florence and her sister.  The book is VERY literary and from that perspective I’m not qualified to comment on it.  But I thought it had a few sub-sections that weren’t entirely necessary as they were tangential to the story itself, eg some of the discussion on politics and history.  Anyway, I basically agree with your comment.

All in all this could be an excellent film.  It has the potential to match or even surpass Atonement especially if they get the final 10-15 minutes (the part after the main beach scene) just right. 
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Film Productions / Re: On Chesil Beach
« Last post by jlent on July 22, 2017, 04:54:17 PM »
Anyone else a fan of the English sitcom, Peep Show? Spotted this in an episode recently, finally got the reference, and laughed way too much. ;D
I'll leave out the two photos to save space.

The following video from these guys, who try to explain everything about the show's use of pop references, shows they haven't a clue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwhtivq6l78
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Film Productions / Re: Lady Bird
« Last post by Steve 7216 on July 22, 2017, 03:53:57 PM »
That's why it's important for the film to be legit and therefore build the kind of momentum through buzz leading to a wider distribution than other films from these kinds of distributors.  So far, they've handled prestige projects initially considered under the radar.  However, for those who reside in places where artsy and/or real indies are not available, chances are those individuals will not be able to see such a film at a cinema.  There are probably many who live in places where mainstream, multiplex-type fare predominate.
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Film Productions / Re: On Chesil Beach
« Last post by Steve 7216 on July 22, 2017, 03:41:02 PM »
After finally reading the script of OCB, it seems to me that the script is superior to the book, especially in the way that its structure builds tension.  What’s very effective in ratcheting up the tension time and time again is the way that the wedding evening is interrupted by cutting back to vignettes from the past year and ultimately to the implied events on the yacht many years before.  The tension is almost excruciating each time the reader is left hanging with Florence and Edward’s fears, uncertainties and insecurities.  It should be even better again on screen.

The script nicely fleshes out the dialogue which tends to be very sparse in the book except for the showdown on the beach.  In fact the only scene that contains dialogue almost unchanged from the book is the showdown on the beach.  (The pair of them must have been half frozen filming that very long scene in November.)  The script is quite effective at converting the descriptive prose and internal thought processes of the book to something that can be filmed.

OCB is an almost perfect vehicle for Saoirse to show her talents, one reason being that Florence’s problems are so internalised that it gives her huge scope to act with nuance.  My usual observation on her films is that her characters are most often disengaged or alienated from their society.  That’s very true again in OCB.  Florence is almost completely disengaged from her parents.  She’s close to petrified of her father (understandably) and has almost no rapport with her mother.  At least in the script she’s close to her sister which doesn’t really come through in the book.  She’s somewhat disengaged from Edward; neither of them really understands the motivations of the other until the showdown on the beach when Edward essentially abandons her in a fit of pique leaving her alienated.  And you could probably say that she’s disengaged from herself in that she fails to properly appreciate her own problems, fears and limitations until it’s too late.

Towards the end of the script I thought things were beginning to meander a little, reflecting I guess the rather aimless meandering of Edward’s life through the years without Florence.  But then when it gets to the VO in the last three scenes, wow that really hits.  There’s such emotional impact, refocusing the reader onto the complete catastrophe of the wedding evening and its long term ramifications for Edward’s life.  That’s going to leave viewers like they’ve been hit in the solar plexus.  The clear message is that the schism that formed between them was overwhelmingly Edward’s fault, a result of his anger which we’ve already seen is his fatal flaw.  Their falling out was basically his to undo if he so desired.  And it’s very fitting that the final shot will be a repeat of Florence walking into the distance along the beach, reinforcing what Edward has lost through his blind folly.  It’s almost nihilistic.  It’s also a nice echo of Atonement that the final scene is set on the beach itself.

Brooklyn was a coming of age story but OCB is pitched at a far more serious level due to the physical and emotional abuse suffered by Florence at the hands of her father and her “survival response” which is basically frigidity.  In that sense OCB is somewhat analogous to S-P in which Leia’s Stockholm syndrome was a survival response to years of captivity.  Florence is damaged; she can operate successfully within the regimented world of classical music but struggles outside its confines.  In a way, what’s important is not so much what’s said but what’s unsaid, ie that the younger Florence was abused by her father and that she can’t even contemplate revealing that to Edward.

OCB doesn’t have the “universal theme” of a film like Brooklyn but the reuniting of Ian McEwan and Saoirse is bound to get some attention as Atonement was well regarded and Saoirse’s role in it was so prominent.  OCB’s box office potential is hard to estimate, maybe it depends on how much momentum it picks up at festivals prior to release.  I doubt that Saoirse would promote it as hard as Brooklyn as the latter was a labour of love and so close to her own experience.

Obviously Saoirse doesn’t have any problem with the subject matter.  She’s wanted to do OCB for years and was lucky that the project was delayed until she was a suitable age.  But maybe the script will be slightly modified, at least enough to protect her modesty, whilst not losing the gist.  Note that a couple of scenes in TGBH were modified in comparison to the script presumably to accommodate Saoirse.  Note also that the list of crew on IMDB includes some prosthetic make-up artists.  I wonder what rating they’ll aim for, maybe US “PG-13” rating?   (I don’t know much about US film ratings.)

OCB is obviously aiming high as an art film.  It’s bedded in early 1960’s social values, in fact it’s not so far removed from Brooklyn in that sense.  It’s underwritten by English class values, ie upper middle class vs country bumpkin.  It’s steeped in classical music from the opening to the closing frame with certain musical themes becoming motifs.  It’s going to feel claustrophobic as Florence and Edward are entrapped on their wedding night by their own errors of judgment.  No happy ending here, it’s ultimately a tragedy.  Ian McEwan seems to like writing tragedies, Atonement and OCB provide varying degrees of disaster for all the central characters.  In the case of OCB, Florence recovers to lead a fulfilling life but Edward slowly realises his folly.  OCB’s subject matter is completely different from Atonement but it has the potential to match it artistically.  Good awards season fare.

Saoirse’s chances at the 2016 Oscars were talked down because Eilis didn’t face a similar level of challenge as Brie Larson’s character in Room.  In fact Eilis was pretty naive, almost a pawn in the hands of others right through the first half of the film.  Florence is a far more complex and challenged character than Eilis so that bodes well for the awards season.  Eilis was very much an innocent coming of age whereas Florence is accomplished but damaged.  In Lady Bird, Saoirse reverted to a teenage role but OCB can cement her as a mature actress tackling difficult roles.

What also bodes well is that the story is so focused on the two lead characters.  However, the focus does shift appreciably off Florence onto Edward after the showdown on the beach.  You might think that a few additional scenes featuring Florence could be included towards the end such as sketches of her second wedding or her family life but that would probably be superfluous.  The final part of the story is focused on Edward realising what he’s thrown away.  The impact of the final scene on the beach is all the stronger because Florence has hardly been seen since their showdown.  At that point, the viewer will be pining to see her as much as Edward.  And we see her as she was, forever young in Edward’s memory, not in middle age or old age.

There was some interesting discussion about this film previously on this site.

One comment suggested that Saoirse would need to learn some violin, at least so that she could convincingly simulate it on screen.  Certainly she learnt piano for Byzantium but in that case she had a whole year off prior to filming in order to train and practice.  In this case she went straight from the set of Lady Bird to the set of OCB, and prior to that she was flat out on Broadway for six months.  So I don’t know how she could have devoted any time to the violin until she arrived on the set itself.  We didn’t see her carrying a violin case around New York last year!

Another comment was around the schoolgirl Chloe who comes into Edward’s record shop and whether or not she is Florence’s daughter.  Note that in the very first scene in the hotel room at the beginning of the film Florence tells Edward that if they ever have a girl she’ll be named… Chloe.

I mostly agree with everything in your lengthy post MM.  The novel or novella isn't inferior however because his skill with language I found astonishing throughout.  While Atonement is incredibly dense and overflowing with descriptive details, OCB is rather spare, but the use of language is brilliant with not a word out of place nor one extra or wasted.

I'm very much into cinema but not one particularly interested in reading scripts, but I did read OCH in one sitting and felt he did a fine job for what might be a first draft.  When the project was announced, my main concern was whether a film audience would be able to understand Florence and her extreme reaction to the fumbled attempt at intimacy on the wedding night.  Frankly, I didn't interpret her flashbacks in the novel (her boat trips with dad) in a nefarious manner.  Others probably did pick up on these clues.  I believe the author actually stated readers might have different interpretations concerning this issue.  To recap, I was mainly concerned with how a modern audience might react to her character and whether they could remotely understand her.

I was happy when I read the script because given the more clarifying references to what happened with her dad, we as film viewers could understand this character and her eventual, drastic decisions on wedding night.  The "twist" toward the end is devastating.  Mark came here to post and inform me that Chloe was indeed Florence's daughter.  When I read the script, I thought it was too obvious, so it went over my head.  However, everything of course added up when I went back to check their ages and the age of the girl.  She was looking for mom's  gift who happened to be an accomplished violinist etc....  The script describes Edward face as being grief stricken (or something along those lines) at the end of the scene.  In addition, I missed your clue as indicated in the last sentence of your post.   8)

I was also a bit concerned about her almost total absence towards the very end of the script.  It plays out like he is the main character.  Your idea of a scene with Florence and her new family makes sense.  If the scriptwriter wishes to keep her young as Edward remembered her, then in addition to the last scene where she's walking away from the camera on the beach, he should play with time and splice in the scene with her performing in the hall while looking directly at the seat where he sat many years before while watching her rehearse.  They could put the camera in her face while she's imaging him and show us through her expressions how she really felt about him.  Then they cut to the real person observing the concert (whoever) while her expression immediately changes to one of deep sadness. 

 
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Film Productions / Re: Stockholm, Pennsylvania
« Last post by jlent on July 22, 2017, 11:31:45 AM »
I bought it on Amazon streaming. I watched it again after all the comments here. I still didn't really much care for it, though Saoirse's performance is better than I had remembered, which at the time I had thought was basically one note.
It was more nuanced the second time around with even a few emotional break outs to lift her from the catatonic state in which she spends much of the movie.
The scenes with Isaac are very good. The scenes with mom get more interesting until the film goes crazy.
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Film Productions / Re: On Chesil Beach
« Last post by MMSouth on July 22, 2017, 10:36:28 AM »
After finally reading the script of OCB, it seems to me that the script is superior to the book, especially in the way that its structure builds tension.  What’s very effective in ratcheting up the tension time and time again is the way that the wedding evening is interrupted by cutting back to vignettes from the past year and ultimately to the implied events on the yacht many years before.  The tension is almost excruciating each time the reader is left hanging with Florence and Edward’s fears, uncertainties and insecurities.  It should be even better again on screen.

The script nicely fleshes out the dialogue which tends to be very sparse in the book except for the showdown on the beach.  In fact the only scene that contains dialogue almost unchanged from the book is the showdown on the beach.  (The pair of them must have been half frozen filming that very long scene in November.)  The script is quite effective at converting the descriptive prose and internal thought processes of the book to something that can be filmed.

OCB is an almost perfect vehicle for Saoirse to show her talents, one reason being that Florence’s problems are so internalised that it gives her huge scope to act with nuance.  My usual observation on her films is that her characters are most often disengaged or alienated from their society.  That’s very true again in OCB.  Florence is almost completely disengaged from her parents.  She’s close to petrified of her father (understandably) and has almost no rapport with her mother.  At least in the script she’s close to her sister which doesn’t really come through in the book.  She’s somewhat disengaged from Edward; neither of them really understands the motivations of the other until the showdown on the beach when Edward essentially abandons her in a fit of pique leaving her alienated.  And you could probably say that she’s disengaged from herself in that she fails to properly appreciate her own problems, fears and limitations until it’s too late.

Towards the end of the script I thought things were beginning to meander a little, reflecting I guess the rather aimless meandering of Edward’s life through the years without Florence.  But then when it gets to the VO in the last three scenes, wow that really hits.  There’s such emotional impact, refocusing the reader onto the complete catastrophe of the wedding evening and its long term ramifications for Edward’s life.  That’s going to leave viewers like they’ve been hit in the solar plexus.  The clear message is that the schism that formed between them was overwhelmingly Edward’s fault, a result of his anger which we’ve already seen is his fatal flaw.  Their falling out was basically his to undo if he so desired.  And it’s very fitting that the final shot will be a repeat of Florence walking into the distance along the beach, reinforcing what Edward has lost through his blind folly.  It’s almost nihilistic.  It’s also a nice echo of Atonement that the final scene is set on the beach itself.

Brooklyn was a coming of age story but OCB is pitched at a far more serious level due to the physical and emotional abuse suffered by Florence at the hands of her father and her “survival response” which is basically frigidity.  In that sense OCB is somewhat analogous to S-P in which Leia’s Stockholm syndrome was a survival response to years of captivity.  Florence is damaged; she can operate successfully within the regimented world of classical music but struggles outside its confines.  In a way, what’s important is not so much what’s said but what’s unsaid, ie that the younger Florence was abused by her father and that she can’t even contemplate revealing that to Edward.

OCB doesn’t have the “universal theme” of a film like Brooklyn but the reuniting of Ian McEwan and Saoirse is bound to get some attention as Atonement was well regarded and Saoirse’s role in it was so prominent.  OCB’s box office potential is hard to estimate, maybe it depends on how much momentum it picks up at festivals prior to release.  I doubt that Saoirse would promote it as hard as Brooklyn as the latter was a labour of love and so close to her own experience.

Obviously Saoirse doesn’t have any problem with the subject matter.  She’s wanted to do OCB for years and was lucky that the project was delayed until she was a suitable age.  But maybe the script will be slightly modified, at least enough to protect her modesty, whilst not losing the gist.  Note that a couple of scenes in TGBH were modified in comparison to the script presumably to accommodate Saoirse.  Note also that the list of crew on IMDB includes some prosthetic make-up artists.  I wonder what rating they’ll aim for, maybe US “PG-13” rating?   (I don’t know much about US film ratings.)

OCB is obviously aiming high as an art film.  It’s bedded in early 1960’s social values, in fact it’s not so far removed from Brooklyn in that sense.  It’s underwritten by English class values, ie upper middle class vs country bumpkin.  It’s steeped in classical music from the opening to the closing frame with certain musical themes becoming motifs.  It’s going to feel claustrophobic as Florence and Edward are entrapped on their wedding night by their own errors of judgment.  No happy ending here, it’s ultimately a tragedy.  Ian McEwan seems to like writing tragedies, Atonement and OCB provide varying degrees of disaster for all the central characters.  In the case of OCB, Florence recovers to lead a fulfilling life but Edward slowly realises his folly.  OCB’s subject matter is completely different from Atonement but it has the potential to match it artistically.  Good awards season fare.

Saoirse’s chances at the 2016 Oscars were talked down because Eilis didn’t face a similar level of challenge as Brie Larson’s character in Room.  In fact Eilis was pretty naive, almost a pawn in the hands of others right through the first half of the film.  Florence is a far more complex and challenged character than Eilis so that bodes well for the awards season.  Eilis was very much an innocent coming of age whereas Florence is accomplished but damaged.  In Lady Bird, Saoirse reverted to a teenage role but OCB can cement her as a mature actress tackling difficult roles.

What also bodes well is that the story is so focused on the two lead characters.  However, the focus does shift appreciably off Florence onto Edward after the showdown on the beach.  You might think that a few additional scenes featuring Florence could be included towards the end such as sketches of her second wedding or her family life but that would probably be superfluous.  The final part of the story is focused on Edward realising what he’s thrown away.  The impact of the final scene on the beach is all the stronger because Florence has hardly been seen since their showdown.  At that point, the viewer will be pining to see her as much as Edward.  And we see her as she was, forever young in Edward’s memory, not in middle age or old age.

There was some interesting discussion about this film previously on this site.

One comment suggested that Saoirse would need to learn some violin, at least so that she could convincingly simulate it on screen.  Certainly she learnt piano for Byzantium but in that case she had a whole year off prior to filming in order to train and practice.  In this case she went straight from the set of Lady Bird to the set of OCB, and prior to that she was flat out on Broadway for six months.  So I don’t know how she could have devoted any time to the violin until she arrived on the set itself.  We didn’t see her carrying a violin case around New York last year!

Another comment was around the schoolgirl Chloe who comes into Edward’s record shop and whether or not she is Florence’s daughter.  Note that in the very first scene in the hotel room at the beginning of the film Florence tells Edward that if they ever have a girl she’ll be named… Chloe.
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Film Productions / Re: Stockholm, Pennsylvania
« Last post by MMSouth on July 22, 2017, 09:38:20 AM »
I have a copy of Stockholm Pennsylvania from an online shop in the USA.  I don't think its been officially released on DVD.  The copy I have is actually a CD-ROM made from a cable TV screening.  I can play it on my computer.  The quality is fine.  Link pasted below.  The two scenes between Saoirse and Jason Issacs are the highlights.  Those two scenes contain some of Saoirse's best acting.

https://www.ioffer.com/selling/raredocumentaries12?query=Stockholm
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